Last year, I had the opportunity to give Leo Babauta the opportunity to be interviewed by yours truly. Besides being the creator and blogger at Zen Habits, a Top 100 blog with 80,000 subscribers — one of the top productivity and simplicity blogs on the Internet, he also has written the top-selling productivity e-book in history: Zen To Done: The Ultimate Simple Productivity System. Then he went off and wrote another book, The Power Of Less – and offered a companion e-book Thriving On Less (which is so less that it’s FREE) as well.
Sounds like he didn’t learn much from our last talk.
Mike: Leo, thanks again for joining me. It was bound to happen eventually, and true to form, it has.
Leo: Thanks for having me, Mike! I always enjoy talking to you.
Mike: The last time we spoke, you had not one, but two books out in e-form. Now, you’ve released yet another in p and a form (paper and audio). Can you tell me what got you to this point, and what helped you achieve the eventuality that was getting published?
Leo: I’ve just taken it one step at a time. I focused first on the blog, then on the ebooks. And by really trying to create useful content, I created the opportunity to do the book — publishers contacted me asking me to write the book. It was exciting. Then I had to write the book — and that was tough, as I also had a blog to run. Again, I took it one step at a time, and today I’m proud to say I’m a published author!
Mike: I notice that you’ve continued your brazen writing style, even going so far as to title your latest work The Power Of Less. I find it interesting that if you remove all of the prepositions, you end up with the title “Power Less.” Is that because Zen uses less power or because I’ve simply read too much into things. If it’s the latter, then just tell me what the title means in order to avoid embarrassment for both of us.
Leo: It’s amazing how the little things, like prepositions, can make all the difference! If you keep the prepositions, The Power of Less actually is meant to show that by focusing on less — less stuff, fewer tasks and projects, a simpler work and personal life — we can actually accomplish more, and be happier. A life with less is a life with fewer complications, less stress, less rushing around, but more focus and effectiveness. By focusing on less, we can achieve more.
Mike: One of the ideas you present is putting things in one big pile as you prepare to “simplify.” Shouldn’t one be afraid of their children running and jumping into the pile, kind of like what happens when you rake leaves? I mean, you have a lot of kids, so how’d you get around that?
Leo: You should never be afraid of children. They’re our friends. But if you are worried about your pile of stuff being messed up by kids, do the simplifying while they’re sleeping, or after you’ve sent them out of the house to run around at the park.
Mike: You also suggest not booking any appointments. This allows you to keep you in a state of “flow.” Your dentist must love you.
Leo: When he tries to make an appointment with me, I tell him to call me on that day and see if I’m available. Usually my teeth stop hurting by then so I cancel. But actually, I don’t mean you should never book appointments: sometimes it’s unavoidable, but in general it’s better to leave your schedule open rather than booking every single minute.
Mike: You’ve whittled down your commitments to a very few, one of which is running. Since you’ve done that, have you found it easier to run, since you’re not running away from all your commitments? I know I hate running for that very reason.
Leo: I prefer to think I’m running towards my commitments! Running is one of my greatest joys, after spending time with my children, eating pizza and ranting about Microsoft.
Mike: Seriously, though. Don’t you get bored (or hungry) with so little on your plate?
Leo: Not at all. When our plates are overloaded, we are occupied by the business of trying to cram everything down our throats, and that’s not enjoyable or smart. By simplifying and focusing on less, I’m able to enjoy what is on my plate so much more, and be so much more effective in doing those things. I’m a better writer, father and husband, runner, because I don’t try to do everything. Instead of looking at it as if I’ve emptied my life, I think of it as filling my life with the things I truly love.
Mike: I like how you’ve turned the whole economic downturn and put it in a positive light by advocating keeping a home with very little in it. Now people won’t feel so bad when they have to sell their stuff.
Leo: Seriously, getting rid of stuff, downsizing your life, scaling back on what you consume … these are good things. If people have been forced to do these things because of a bad economy, I feel for them, but at the same time it’s better to focus on the positive. Look at how little you actually need to be happy, and how much better life is with less possessions, less focus on consuming, more room for the things you love. A move away from the overconsumption that has been our main occupation for awhile now is a blessing in disguise.
Mike: What is The Power of Less Challenge and how eventual is it? If it’s eventual enough, I just might try it – or watch someone try it.
Leo: The Power of Less Challenge is a 30-day challenge in which you declare, to the public, that you’re going to do a new habit for 30 days. I’ve set up a forum for the challenge, so you can announce your new habit to the forum, report back daily with your progress for accountability, and get support from other challengers. It’s a great way to form a new habit. The challenge can be as eventual as you like, but a better word is “gradual” — you start out small, with just 10 minutes of your new habit a day, and only slowly add to that. By starting small, you overcome the barrier that most people face — running out of steam and failing.
Mike: You don’t believe in multi-tasking either. Single-tasking is your thing. Aren’t you taking the “can’t walk and chew gum at the same time” expression too literally?
Leo: It’s less “can’t walk and chew gum at the same time” and more “could walk and chew gum and check email and Twitter and Facebook and RSS feeds and surf your favorite news sites and talk on the cell phone at the same time … but you won’t be very effective at any of them”. You could do more than one thing at the same time, and we all do, but why? It decreases your effectiveness, and you don’t enjoy the gum as much.
Mike: If I ever come to Guam, can I crash at your place? I’ll only bring my three most important things, if that’ll help.
Leo: I have enough crashing at my place, with the kids recklessly driving their tricycles and scooters around. It’s very dangerous. But Guam is a great place to visit, if you love beaches and great weather and beer and don’t mind a few mosquitos.
Mike: Thanks, Leo. It’s good to talk with you every now and “zen.”
Leo: We should make this a habit. Let’s talk again, eventually.
